19 replies to this topic

[wyomingman]

I am currently working on a recreation of Vortex from California's Great America (the standup coaster)

I hope you guys like it so far; however the chain could be improved a bit.

The teaser:



The test video:




- wyomingman

[-=Zach=-]

Everything looks pretty good from what I can see, good luck on this one.

[Gvus]

Looks pretty good so far, good luck dealing with the horrible VV speed loss.

[soggyhotdoggg]

Knowing the small size of vortex, this should be possible as long as you keep good supports and good shaping Good luck.

[JayketheKid]

Agreed. Can not wait to see how this turns out. I bet the heart lining will be a pain.

[wyomingman]

Everything looks pretty good from what I can see, good luck on this one.

Thanks

Looks pretty good so far, good luck dealing with the horrible VV speed loss.

I'm already experiencing it

Knowing the small size of vortex, this should be possible as long as you keep good supports and good shaping Good luck.

Thanks

Agreed. Can not wait to see how this turns out. I bet the heart lining will be a pain.

Thanks! What exactly is heart lining? (sorry for my lack of roller coaster terminology)


UPDATE:

I finished the loop and it worked perfectly for 15 runs. The next day, it didn't come close to making it. Any help?


Here is the video:


Thanks!
wyomingman

[JayketheKid]

Heart lining is a concept where if you go through a twist the track circles around your head. Your head stays still, but your body doesn't making for an extremely comfortable ride. Examples of this Outlaw run 153 out bank and barrel roll.
Also good coaster.

[Maxlaam]

Heart lining is a concept where if you go through a twist the track circles around your head. Your head stays still, but your body doesn't making for an extremely comfortable ride. Examples of this Outlaw run 153 out bank and barrel roll.
Also good coaster.

Hearth Lining = Head Lining?

[soggyhotdoggg]

I think pictures would definitely help. But from what I could see in the video, try to support your track a little bit more. That should help you out with speed.
Otherwise, pretty good for VV

[-=Zach=-]

I would work on your track-to-support connections a little more as ^ said. Are your cars weighted? If not, be sure to weight them.
As far as the shaping goes, this looks fantastic, but I would say the drop needs a bit more banking.

Oh yeah, and heart lining is where the track circles around you, rather than you circling around the track.
no heart lining:


heart lining:

[CowmanBearPig]

DONT OIL YOUR CARS!!! It will make them slower than they are now. Your loop looks under supported. Maybe is you added an A frame support to each side it would maintain speed better. ALSO, speed problems always occur with VV coasters which makes it incredibly hard to pull off recreations. That being said, I would advise you just to make an original coaster just to work on strengthening your supporting and track working skills. But, if you're dead set on building Vortex, go for it!

[Connector1o1]

I was misinformed! Oiling your VV cars actually corrodes the cars. I am not blaming that person who told me it works. I am just glad I found this out. I experimented last night and found out the materials made for VV cars are way different then SS carts. After about a month of usage the wheels goop up inside of the wheel casing causing friction. I am hear to say I am sorry for suggesting oiling for Sleet. Sorry

[Connector1o1]

Okay, I have figured the old wise question out! Why does micro have such a speed loss?
This is the answer! VV track has wire inside of the track! When the temperature changes even a tiny bit, the track changes shape and size. When you make the track to the specific speed needs at that time, it will clear it. But when temperature changes so does the track, and it doesn't clear it any more! That is why VV has major speed loss when sitting for a while! It's not the oil, although I would stop using it still.

[The Stig]

^ I blame the poorly designed cars.

[ZachCreate]

^ Does that mean there is a way to prevent speed loss, by like putting the track in the refrigerator or something?!

[Gvus]

But there isbonly wire in the old VV track, the newer VV track (what I use) is just plastic.

[Connector1o1]

^ I blame the poorly designed cars.

Me too, but it is not the only reason, I studied track expansion and it is the same with real roller coasters. I used to oil the carts, but someone told me it's bad to do that, although I never ran into issues when I oiled them once eery 2 days. I cleaned them, then oild them, and they never gave me any grief. However several people told me to take my Youtube video off of youtube because it doesn't work. They also told me to tell everybody that it was bad for the carts. I don't think It is though.

^ Does that mean there is a way to prevent speed loss, by like putting the track in the refrigerator or something?!

When the track cools off, you will have the same effect as if a temperature change. So no not really, but it was a good idea!

[Connector1o1]

But there isbonly wire in the old VV track, the newer VV track (what I use) is just plastic.

I have a newer piece too, and it has plastic tags. But on the inside of it is wire, that's why it bends. At least I am pretty sure? I will cut one open later...

[Cobra Roller]

I have a newer piece too, and it has plastic tags. But on the inside of it is wire, that's why it bends. At least I am pretty sure? I will cut one open later...

There is no wire in the newer VV track. I've cut one open. However, along with Stig, I too blame the car design for the horrid speed loss. The combination of the crappy wheels and how loose the car fits onto the track really kills the speed.

[Batwing]

Nice work on the coaster! Vortex has a reasonably short layout, so you should hopefully be able to do it...

^^As for speed loss problems, I don't see any wire inside my track, but I'm sure thermal expansion/contraction is one of the many reasons, especially for outside builds. Maybe not so much indoor coasters though- I'd like to think my room has a relatively constant temperature.

However, I would attribute it more so to:

-Weakness of track itself, from its flexibility and presence of single track connection points, unlike the double point structure on SS. Spines can greatly enhance this strength, but the track can only be reinforced to a certain extent. On top of this, track will easily deform under stress, contributing to rough spots which over time may be problematic (I've experienced long-term difficulties)
-The frankly poor wheel configuration. Unlike the realistic triple wheel combination on SS coasters (Runners, side-frictions and up-stops), VV wheels are far looser and prone to being jogged. The axes are weak too, so only certain cars can 'make it'. If I had more time/money/everything, I'd probably be tempted to DIY a train.

Speaking as a VV builder who has recently experienced speed issues (and nearly solved them so update coming soon), my speed efficiency has never been over 60%. For this reason, recreations are so difficult. But to solve this, the best way is to alter your building style to accommodate the speed loss, hence sacrifice a little realism for functionality.

The trick, in my opinion, is to not expend all your potential energy in the first few elements. If you situate your loop a little higher, then it need not be much smaller, but if the coaster has a set efficiency, then you can use the extra momentum later on. I'll explain further: say you build your lift at 1 metre and with a 60%efficiency if you go all the way down to ground, you'll be able to achieve a 60cm tall loop. But if the drop is halved, then the loop will be 30cm, plus the height the drop saved - so the loop will effectively be 80cm tall. This way you don't waste all your energy on the first element.

Hope that helps any other VV builders out there! I might do a tutorial on it soon.

In the end...VVs are just way too variable to even consider recreating a longer coaster without boosters!