101 replies to this topic

[RidesByDaan]

That is a massive difference! 

I'd love to have those as well

[XmanConstruction]

First test runs- they're running pretty fast! Thanks to Chaos for helping with the video and for letting me test them on his coaster! 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=xvG96xkREus

Omg! Amazing progress! 

Edited by XmanConstruction, 25 April 2019 - 02:08 PM.

[SCM]

Thinking ahead here - I'd love to have these as well, but I have no 3D printer. If you do plan on making these available, how would you do it? By that I mean sell little kits for the user to put together themselves or assemble each one by hand? Hmm... I have a suggestion for this. How about a custom order form where: 

 

- If the user checks "Yes. I do have the necessary materials", just the instructions would be sent. If not, the materials are sent for the user to either put together or are already put together (maybe a small pre-assembly fee if that's the case?)) 

- A place where the user can specify how much they need (such as 4-car train, 6-car train, etc.) 

 

Online instructions that the user can follow in the case of needing to assemble it themselves or in case they take it apart for cleaning or something and wouldn't know how to put it back together otherwise. Visiting the hardware store with a shopping cart full of ball bearings and everyone gives you weird looks for some reason. 

[JohnnyR24]

(Partially a reply to SCM's comment)

 

I wouldn't worry about not having a 3d printer, unless there is a huge demand, I should be able to print some out for people  .

That whole spreadsheet sounds like a great idea and may be implemented in the future if this becomes a thing. 

Currently, I'm looking to just test some of these wheel assemblies out and have printed around 5 sets (a set includes 3 assemblies for a two car train) which i'm hoping to send to some people to test and see how they work. (As a side note- I only have enough bearings to make 5 assemblies, just waiting for more bearings from China) There may be small tweaks with wheel clearances I don't know about that others may be more knowledgeable in, but once the testing from others is somewhat completed, we can look into a future production plan.

 

Also, does anyone have an idea of how one could send a payment to each other? Do people use Venmo (or some thing else) and does this work overseas?

 

[Ghostbuster]

I think your best bet would be PayPal for the transactions, you could also consider sharing the .STL file for other users who have access to a 3D printer. (Completely up to you if you want to share it, either way is fine!!) I'm planning to design my own as I have experience with CAD programs and own a 3D printer myself. 

I would just like to give you a lot of appreciation and gratitude for developing and testing this. You are bringing the community to a new level!

[Jogumpie]

There's always the option of using www.shapeways.com or a similar service.

I would love to see more tests with this, showcasing (and measuring) the increased performance.

I can even see people adding K'NEX rod ends to the model and creating custom cars from classic K'NEX parts.

That would require inter-car connection (the ball-joints) to be included in the custom chassis, though.

Oh well, if one is to go that far, why not create the option to add a chain dog to each car...

 

Now I don't have so much 3D modelling experience and not much time on my hands (I should get working on that tilt coaster again...), so realistically speaking, I would wait for someone else to do that 3D modelling. 

[TheCodeMaster]

Awesome work! I'm honestly suprised nobody has done something like this sooner (unless they have!). I look forward to further developments.

[Jogumpie]

Let us know what you want tested. Coasterkiller05 lives quite close to my place, so we may be able to get some results.

[JohnnyR24]

Let us know what you want tested. Coasterkiller05 lives quite close to my place, so we may be able to get some results.

Oh neat, I knew you were both from the Netherlands, but didn't know you were close! I don't have any specific tests in mind so do whatever you can. One thing I'm curious about is if there are any parts of the 3d printed part that should be removed or "cut back" because they scrape on the track or other areas. Just want to make sure the clearances are the same (or maybe better) than the standard plastic wheel assemblies.

 

Also, if you (meaning everyone) haven't seen it, check out Coasterkiller05's post of the Nameless Eurofighter where he put on the ball bearings. It's pretty sweet! 

[Jogumpie]

Today Coasterkiller05 came over to my place to do some tests with the ball-bearing assemblies. We compared them to a below average regular train and to an above average regular train. And we put them through some tight corners to see how they do.

 

 IMG_20190515_132010.jpg   142.81KB   0 downloads

This turn is too tight for a regular car, because the bottom wheel covers are rather large and hit the cross ties.

 

 IMG_20190515_132030.jpg   127.67KB   0 downloads

The ball-bearing assemblies do not have this issue and are therefore suitable for very tight corners. Ideal for wild mouse coasters, especially when you combine the fact that these ball bearings reduce the minimal angle of declination for the car to start rolling.

 

 

 IMG_20190515_133714.jpg   149.45KB   1 downloads

Tight crests have never really been a problem for the regular cars, apart from the chain dog grabbing onto the cross ties, when going backwards, when there's no middle tubing.

 

 IMG_20190515_133726.jpg   145.76KB   0 downloads

The same goes for these ball-bearing assemblies, as the chain dog is untouched.

 

 IMG_20190515_135334.jpg   149.29KB   1 downloads

Now I went overboard with making a tight valley. Obviously this is too tight for a regular car.

 

 IMG_20190515_135354.jpg   184.67KB   1 downloads

The ball-bearing assemblies can handle a lot, but this is also too tight for them. But that's only because of one part...

 

 IMG_20190515_140946.jpg   119.59KB   1 downloads

The front assembly touches the tubing when the valley is too tight. For practical purposes (imagine using it for a Eurofighter lift) it is no problem, though. One would never build a valley that tight.

 

 

 

We had the first drop on my new ride extended into a makeshift valley with a vertical spike at the end, so we could see how far back up the train would roll after being released from a certain height. The below average regular train (of 2 cars) went from a starting height of 140 cm (55 inch) to a height of 94 cm (37 inch). The ball-bearing assembly train went from a starting height of 140 cm (55 inch) to a height of 117 cm (46 inch). Once you experience these ball-bearing assembly trains, you cannot go back to regular trains.

 

I do have one feature request, however. Would you be able to print a chain dog holder onto the assembly for the last car?

 

I will send you a PM about a probable order I would like to place. Coasterkiller05's next order can be added to that then, since we live so close to one another.

[Ghostbuster]

Very interesting test! Approximately 24.5% higher than the regular train. You stated that you had a vertical spike at the end of the valley. Can you also share the angle of the drop?

[Jogumpie]

 IMG_20190515_190557.jpg   155.94KB   2 downloads

This is what I can show at this moment. The track is not top-notch and not properly supported, but it works for the tests we did.

[JohnnyR24]

Wow, thanks for taking all those pictures and doing those tests with it, this is even more than I was hoping for!

That's a good idea about adding a chain dog holder to the last car, I'll start thinking about how to do that.

Now... onto tweaking some of the parts a bit, I'll definitely keep you all updated!

[CCreator12]

I love how far these are coming along.

 

Please keep us updated, I'd like to make a pretty decent sized order of these around August if development finishes in time!

[XmanConstruction]

Wow, thanks for taking all those pictures and doing those tests with it, this is even more than I was hoping for!

That's a good idea about adding a chain dog holder to the last car, I'll start thinking about how to do that.

Now... onto tweaking some of the parts a bit, I'll definitely keep you all updated!

With proper methods, you could find ways to cast and duplicate parts with resin. Just an idea though.

[TheSUCKCrew]

Amazing. So many years of development on this forum, and still such a major improvement can be made.

This is just great!

One of the things that annoyed me about the original SS cars, is the play they have. I can imagine there's quite some losses involved during straight areas where the car kind of keeps shaking between the left wheels and the right wheels. 
Is the play reduced by these new cars? In any case a further improvement might be to tackle this issue, which could be done by biasing the wheels ever so slightly to steer the cars to one side. Installing one of the top wheels with a slight angle should suffice. 

 

By the experiments of Jochem, I can conclude that the difference currently is already quite astonishing though. Almost to the point where I wonder if any further improvements might actually make the cars run unrealistically frictionless!

Greetings,

Bart

[JohnnyR24]

Amazing. So many years of development on this forum, and still such a major improvement can be made.

This is just great!

One of the things that annoyed me about the original SS cars, is the play they have. I can imagine there's quite some losses involved during straight areas where the car kind of keeps shaking between the left wheels and the right wheels. 
Is the play reduced by these new cars? In any case a further improvement might be to tackle this issue, which could be done by biasing the wheels ever so slightly to steer the cars to one side. Installing one of the top wheels with a slight angle should suffice. 

 

By the experiments of Jochem, I can conclude that the difference currently is already quite astonishing though. Almost to the point where I wonder if any further improvements might actually make the cars run unrealistically frictionless!

Greetings,

Bart

 

Hey Bart,

That kind of bugged me also with how much play the knex wheel assemblies had. The play is reduced somewhat with these bearing assemblies (I'm thinking around 25% "tighter" on the track). Some of my original prototypes had as much play as the knex assemblies, but the problem i found was the track tubing would get caught between the gap between two perpendicular wheels/bearings (like the road and side wheels) as the bearings i use have a smaller width than the plastic wheels which made the gaps between the wheels/bearings bigger. I then had to tighten up the assemblies to where any play wouldn't be more than the width of the bearings, so roughly 4mm play throughout it.

I wonder how tight these assemblies could be on the track till it restricts the trains maneuverability....?  I noticed with a custom coaster I'm building (not knex) that too much play in the wheels did make the trains loose quite a bit of speed (like you mentioned), but if they were too tight the turns and quick changes became hard to maneuver as the wheels became wedged between the track. I guess there is a balance somewhere and we'll probably find it sometime with these assemblies!

Edited by JohnnyR24, 21 May 2019 - 10:48 AM.

[RCT2123]

I am also in for an order of these when the time comes!  I want to get building again and these are just too amazing to live without.  Got a link to the bearings you are using, and where to buy?

 

As for payment, most US banks use zelle which can be used for small payments.  

 

I think the next big step here is along the lines of what Gump mentioned.  Ditch the SS cars entirely, and just throw some rod end on there so we can build our own cars out of classic parts.  The play and wedging problem you mentioned in your last post, Johnny, is really a degrees of freedom problem, especially with the first car.  Here's a good video on it https://www.youtube....h?v=mHC_69lVVfo

 

Adding yaw and pitch to both bogies on the front car would allow you to really tighten up the tolerances, and remove that play (while still passing Gump's tests).  It's likely easier to just design your own train base and bogies at that point, though, lol.  You'd need to find ball joints that would work and are cost effective, but I doubt this is a problem at the SS scale.

Let me know if you'd like any help with this!  This is a really great project.

Edited by RCT2123, 27 May 2019 - 09:27 PM.

[JohnnyR24]

I am also in for an order of these when the time comes!  I want to get building again and these are just too amazing to live without.  Got a link to the bearings you are using, and where to buy?

 

Sounds great! As for the link, I've been getting the bearings from a couple different places, but mostly all from ebay. If you look up 5x11x4mm bearings on ebay a bunch will pop up. I found packs of 25 and 100 bearings from China which are a better price than purchasing the 10 bearing packs from places in the U.S., though shipping takes longer. So far all the bearings seem to be of the same quality whether they are from China or not.

All the bearings I bought I've had to take the rubber seals off and clean the grease out, but if anyone happens to find some open bearings free of grease, that would definitely save some time with cleaning!

Edited by JohnnyR24, 29 May 2019 - 10:50 AM.

[JohnnyR24]

With the help of my brother I've made a couple changes to some of the assemblies (only pictured here is the front assembly):

 

This should give the front assembly just a little more clearance in tighter valleys.

 

Now i'm in the process of creating that rear chain dog assembly/holder....

Edited by JohnnyR24, 29 May 2019 - 10:56 AM.