222 replies to this topic

[Muzz135]

Wow! This is amazing gump! The flow of this coaster is so realistic! 10/10 well done!

[Jumpge]

Definitely a great final video. There were some absolutely awesome shots in that video and all of the POV's were very nice. Very nice work Jochem.

[Gvus]

That's just so beautiful.
I love the great POV's that you get on your massive builds, I wish I could get ones that good on my tiny rides.

So I guess Trinity's video is next...

[Connector1o1]

It's such a great coaster, my favorite part was the pov, it looked so realistic! I can't wait for Trinity, which has been my favorite build so far...

[-=Zach=-]

Absolutely stunning. It's a shame that some of the shaping was ruined on the larger elements, hopefully you can fix that with the smaller version you plan to make.

The video was also fantastic, lots of great angles. I especially loved the one showing all of the smaller camelbacks from the helix, looked amazing.

[Helmut]

I really enjoyed watching the final video, you and Max must have had a good time shooting the footage and editing the video. Especially the POV was really good. The coaster itself is very impressive, it is awesome to see a coaster with tubes this tall. However, I saw that the size of this coaster also caused some major shaping issues. The drop and the pull-in of the first camelback were totally straight, some pull-outs were too small and the helix had some funky shaping and banking. On the other hand, such a big hyper looks awesome in the park. The visitors of the museum must have enjoyed watching Koloss operating. Congratulations Jochem, you put a lof of effort in the construction of Koloss and it is definitely one of your best creations so far.

[Britfag]

Awesome video guys! Think it really highlights the pullout after the helix though.

[Maxlaam]

I really enjoyed watching the final video, you and Max must have had a good time shooting the footage and editing the video. Especially the POV was really good. The coaster itself is very impressive, it is awesome to see a coaster with tubes this tall. However, I saw that the size of this coaster also caused some major shaping issues. The drop and the pull-in of the first camelback were totally straight, some pull-outs were too small and the helix had some funky shaping and banking. On the other hand, such a big hyper looks awesome in the park. The visitors of the museum must have enjoyed watching Koloss operating. Congratulations Jochem, you put a lof of effort in the construction of Koloss and it is definitely one of your best creations so far.

I thought I already explained what caused that last saturday, the filming was done in the final month of operation, after so many hours the track starts to set. When the ride was first put up it looked much better than it does now. If a similar construction like the one on Balrog was used it wouldn't have been as bad. The way the track looks is not because of poor shaping but because of 4 months of intensive operation.

[TheRandomGuy]

Wow. I'm speechless at the amount of time, work and effort you did on this monster. You got some great shots of the coaster as well! (And the drop tower! )

[Helmut]

I thought I already explained what caused that last saturday, the filming was done in the final month of operation, after so many hours the track starts to set. When the ride was first put up it looked much better than it does now. If a similar construction like the one on Balrog was used it wouldn't have been as bad. The way the track looks is not because of poor shaping but because of 4 months of intensive operation.

I know, me and Maarten had the same problem of track deformation on our Goliath SFOG recreation. I also mentioned in my comment that the size (in combination with the intensive operation of course) caused this problem. Why did you not fix the shaping every now and then? We did that on Goliath SFOG and it made the coaster run and look a lot better. It only took a few minutes to bend the track back in place and fix the shaping.

[Jogumpie]

Wow! This is amazing gump! The flow of this coaster is so realistic! 10/10 well done!

Thanks, Muzz. That's the advantage of this large scale.

Definitely a great final video. There were some absolutely awesome shots in that video and all of the POV's were very nice. Very nice work Jochem.

Thanks, Elijah. POVs always seem to be popular with viewers. For your information, we also shot POVs of Trinity.

That's just so beautiful.
I love the great POV's that you get on your massive builds, I wish I could get ones that good on my tiny rides.

So I guess Trinity's video is next...

Maybe once these small onride cameras get more and more advanced, with higher frame rates. It's something I'm looking forward to, as you could slow down these POV shots without ruining them. And yeah, Trinity is probably next.

It's such a great coaster, my favorite part was the pov, it looked so realistic! I can't wait for Trinity, which has been my favorite build so far...

How come you like Trinity so much? I'd like to know, because it's that one ride that will be demolished after K'NEX Adventure Land closes.

Absolutely stunning. It's a shame that some of the shaping was ruined on the larger elements, hopefully you can fix that with the smaller version you plan to make.

The video was also fantastic, lots of great angles. I especially loved the one showing all of the smaller camelbacks from the helix, looked amazing.

I think you are overreacting when you say 'ruined' and it sounds like that killed the ride for you, which I would find an annoying thought. I do not plan on making a smaller version, you must have misread an earlier post. My plan is to give Koloss an overhaul and rebuild the second half of the ride.

I really enjoyed watching the final video, you and Max must have had a good time shooting the footage and editing the video. Especially the POV was really good. The coaster itself is very impressive, it is awesome to see a coaster with tubes this tall. However, I saw that the size of this coaster also caused some major shaping issues. The drop and the pull-in of the first camelback were totally straight, some pull-outs were too small and the helix had some funky shaping and banking. On the other hand, such a big hyper looks awesome in the park. The visitors of the museum must have enjoyed watching Koloss operating. Congratulations Jochem, you put a lof of effort in the construction of Koloss and it is definitely one of your best creations so far.

It was mainly a long time shooting the footage. We spent 4 days on it, so that should come down to about 14 hours of filming. Then, I spent a couple of hours on checking the footage and renaming the files for easier editing, spread over a couple of days. This sunday evening I started editing the video, finished it for about 98% and then showed Max, who gave a couple of remarks, which I would consider the last 2% of the process. It seems I'm perfectly capable of using Vegas Pro by now.
The size of the tubes is astonishing to see, but it also causes for tougher transportation. I am considering redesigning a couple of these tubes, with 8 orange connectors halfway down, so it can be split in two. You see, this ride is supposed to return more often. It is part of the collection of rides we, Max and I, as Dutch Details, want to have available for upcoming expositions. It is way too grand to have it be a one-time job.

Awesome video guys! Think it really highlights the pullout after the helix though.

I've explained this to you, but I will again for most of the other members here on SSCoasters. Building K'NEX Adventure Land could have been seen as a job, I committed to building this park for the toy museum. As there was a time limit (two years, which seems like a long time), I sometimes had to rush in order to have rides finished in time. One of those rushes occurred after I built the first hill right out of the helix. I noticed I had to get working on the second ride of the park, so this second half of the ride was rushed. This is also the reason I want to rebuild that part (and the poor brake section and brakes).

I thought I already explained what caused that last saturday, the filming was done in the final month of operation, after so many hours the track starts to set. When the ride was first put up it looked much better than it does now. If a similar construction like the one on Balrog was used it wouldn't have been as bad. The way the track looks is not because of poor shaping but because of 4 months of intensive operation.

What Max says is pretty much the reason behind the slight track deformations. Calling it shaping issues is a bad choice of words, as it isn't related to the action one performs to optimize the shape of the track, i.e. shaping. It is a problem related to intensive ride operation.

Wow. I'm speechless at the amount of time, work and effort you did on this monster. You got some great shots of the coaster as well! (And the drop tower! )

Thank you very much. With the room I had in the toy museum, it was easy to get great shots. Actually there were so many shots, many weren't even used in this video.

I know, me and Maarten had the same problem of track deformation on our Goliath SFOG recreation. I also mentioned in my comment that the size (in combination with the intensive operation of course) caused this problem. Why did you not fix the shaping every now and then? We did that on Goliath SFOG and it made the coaster run and look a lot better. It only took a few minutes to bend the track back in place and fix the shaping.

Your choice of words was bad. As I expect you to be smart enough, I blame you for being willingly ignorant. As I said before, building K'NEX Adventure Land was a commitment I made to the toy museum. Having it run on its own without my interference was probably the most important thing to achieve. Living in Enschede, being in the south of the country only during some weekends, I had not so much time to do maintenance. While in your case it might only take a few minutes to fix the deformations, I would have had to travel all the way to the museum, just to spend a couple of minutes just to please people who expect too much, like you. Another thing is that Koloss' operation was very delicate and sensitive. Imagine me having one afternoon free to visit K'NEX Adventure Land. Koloss is running just fine, but slight deformations have occurred on the first drop and the large camelback. Now I am adjusting these deformations and suddenly Koloss would not make it round the circuit anymore. Time is running out, as the toy museum is closing soon. Can you imagine the risk of doing unnecessary maintenance, leaving so many visitors without that gigantic ride they were hoping to see running? Your situation with Goliath SFOG was not the same as with mine. While you may think you build at a comparable scale, there are still many things different between our situations and I am aware of those. Things like building in sections, not being able to do full test runs, transportation and other things, that all create a margin in the performance of the ride. It is something I chose to do, but sometimes I think people forget that and blame it on so-called skills.

[-=Zach=-]

Ah, I can see why you read the message that way. The ride was fantastic, don't get me wrong. A masterpiece, really. I was just stating that I felt bad that the shaping had become all straight spotty, which I thought was due to the transportation and rebuilding, but then Max pointed out that the track had settled. My apologies for the confusion.

[Maxlaam]

A lot of things are overlooked, there are so many variables involved, variables most of you never had to deal with. K'NEX Adventure Land was a logistical nightmare, basically cramming 120 m2 into a little shed, backyard and your room for 2 years then having only a few weekends to put it all back together. Having a deadline with a ceremonial opening of the park K'NEX representatives and the CEO of a construction company who might be willing to offer you an intern ship. Something of this scale definitely had us stressed out as we were working on it until 5 minutes before the deadline. You can't imagine how many frustrations arose when Apocalypse seized operation and had to be tweaked leaving a blank spot in the park for so long. While we were on holiday for 12 days we had 3 of the major rides break down in just the first half days of our holiday. It's not as easy as looking after a ride in your own room.

It's simply heartbreaking to be working on something this big for so long and being critiqued on deformed track (which has already been elaborately explained by now) . Jogumpie has been working incredibly hard to show you the video of Koloss so soon. It's nothing less than a right kick in the groin when you read some of these comments. You don't have to be positive, but some nuance is never a bad idea. Or read back in the thread to see if things have already been addressed.

[Helmut]

Jochem,

I did not know it took you fourteen hours to shoot the footage for the final video, so the track deformation was caused during the filming and could not be avoided. I'm sorry, but I could not have known this.

I feel that you are overreacting to every little bit of criticism, no matter how positive the rest of the comment is. I mentioned many positive aspects in my comment, namely that I really enjoyed watching the video, that the POV was good, that the coaster is impressive, that it is awesome to see a coaster with tubes this tall, that the coaster looks awesome in the park, that the visitors must have enjoyed watching Koloss run, that this is your best creation so far and I even congratulated you with this build. On the other hand, I also mentioned some aspects of the ride that could have been better, namely the shaping issues (due to track deformation). Looking at all the positive aspects I mentioned, one cannot call my post negative. It is positive, but with a critical note.

You have even sent me a private message on Facebook, in which you said: 'ik vind je commentaar toch redelijk vervelend, helmer', which could be translated as 'I find your comment pretty annoying, Helmer'.

I will write honest comments in which I can say what I want to say, without having to fear the consequence of having to defend myself on SSC or Facebook because someone is overreacting to criticism.

I do not want to waste anymore time on this. You built a fantastic coaster, do not get me wrong, but you also need to learn to take supportive criticism.

-Helmer

EDIT 10/23/14: Gump, if you feel the the need to bring Helmut back up in discussion, then I'm restoring this. You can't have it both ways. -PKI

Edited by pkiknex25, 23 October 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[maarten12]

It's incredible how rock solid this coaster is standing. I mean, I really can imagine how hard it must be to go that tall with tubes. I guess most of us haven't even build at half the size of the coaster, let alone with tubes. The flow of the coaster was pretty to look at, it seemed so realistic. And oh, lovely braking system you got there .

[Britfag]

I've explained this to you, but I will again for most of the other members here on SSCoasters. Building K'NEX Adventure Land could have been seen as a job, I committed to building this park for the toy museum. As there was a time limit (two years, which seems like a long time), I sometimes had to rush in order to have rides finished in time. One of those rushes occurred after I built the first hill right out of the helix. I noticed I had to get working on the second ride of the park, so this second half of the ride was rushed. This is also the reason I want to rebuild that part (and the poor brake section and brakes).

I didn't mean any offense by it! Still an amazing ride, and I can't wait to see what becomes of any potential rebuilds

Sorry if I offended you, but that's not what I intended, I guess it's difficult to convey how I meant it to come across, but it was more a joking comment than anything else guys. I am still blown away by the whole park, and Koloss alone is epic.

[Zorn]

I know how much effort it is to set up a roller coaster outside your home, transportation, rebuilding, lubricating trains, just so much more extra work. I kept track of my hours when I did my Dragon Fire exhibit, which came to about 32 hours outside of home. I can only imagine the many many hours that went into this project.

The POV is great on a ride of this scale, usually everything goes by so fast you don't know what's happening. (makes me want to purchase a go-pro or good camera just for onride POV's)

A job well done on everything, it looks incredible.

[DDRman732865]

Obviously, I think this coaster is fantastic. No one is arguing that. No one straight up said your coaster is bad, it's a disappointment, etc. Because it isn't.

It's simply heartbreaking to be working on something this big for so long and being critiqued on deformed track (which has already been elaborately explained by now) . Jogumpie has been working incredibly hard to show you the video of Koloss so soon. It's nothing less than a right kick in the groin when you read some of these comments. You don't have to be positive, but some nuance is never a bad idea. Or read back in the thread to see if things have already been addressed.

However, I do believe you're getting overly defensive. I can only imagine the amount of work you guys put into this coaster, it was probably more work than all my coasters combined. However, most of the criticisms are true, regardless of context. Yes, there was some iffy shaping here and there. I understand that it's the result of the continuous 4 months of running, combined with the inevitable (relative) lack of sturdiness of tube supports, the assembly process, storage, etc. I've read through the thread, and I understand why things are the way they are. That doesn't change the fact that the coaster isn't perfect. It's fantastic, it's groudbreaking, it's plain awesome, but it has flaws. People tend to point that out because they expect top-notch 100% quality from you guys. However, in this case, it really wasn't feasible to have perfection last.

No coaster has been built to this scale using this technique of building. In that, you guys are pioneers. However, there is room for improvement, particularly with the long run. While Balrog lasted well for obvious reasons, this one didn't for reasons you guys already reiterated. It's clear that if someone wants to have a coaster like this running for long periods of time, then they need to find a support method that works and lasts through many fatigue cycles. That's the inherent issue with trying to do everything (realistic supports, meticulous shaping, and displaying for long periods of time). I'm not at all saying you should have done anything differently. I'm just saying all of the criticism comes with good intentions. And the context is completely fine to provide, if we truly don't understand why it happened, which was the case. But don't be heartbroken. Be motivated to improve and strive for perfection in the future.

I'm not trying to attack you personally. I'm trying to give another perspective on where people are coming from. You guys have every right to be immensely proud of this coaster.

[Connector1o1]

How come you like Trinity so much? I'd like to know, because it's that one ride that will be demolished after K'NEX Adventure Land closes.

Well, I like Trinity so much, because it is a wooden coaster, but more importantly it is something new and fresh. I really like the 3 train layout, and to do it all in a blue rod structure is fantastic. I like all the rides especially Coloss, but Trinity takes the cake for me! It has a very nice layout, and all done in a good space. Superb!

[Jogumpie]

Obviously, I think this coaster is fantastic. No one is arguing that. No one straight up said your coaster is bad, it's a disappointment, etc. Because it isn't.



However, I do believe you're getting overly defensive. I can only imagine the amount of work you guys put into this coaster, it was probably more work than all my coasters combined. However, most of the criticisms are true, regardless of context. Yes, there was some iffy shaping here and there. I understand that it's the result of the continuous 4 months of running, combined with the inevitable (relative) lack of sturdiness of tube supports, the assembly process, storage, etc. I've read through the thread, and I understand why things are the way they are. That doesn't change the fact that the coaster isn't perfect. It's fantastic, it's groudbreaking, it's plain awesome, but it has flaws. People tend to point that out because they expect top-notch 100% quality from you guys. However, in this case, it really wasn't feasible to have perfection last.

No coaster has been built to this scale using this technique of building. In that, you guys are pioneers. However, there is room for improvement, particularly with the long run. While Balrog lasted well for obvious reasons, this one didn't for reasons you guys already reiterated. It's clear that if someone wants to have a coaster like this running for long periods of time, then they need to find a support method that works and lasts through many fatigue cycles. That's the inherent issue with trying to do everything (realistic supports, meticulous shaping, and displaying for long periods of time). I'm not at all saying you should have done anything differently. I'm just saying all of the criticism comes with good intentions. And the context is completely fine to provide, if we truly don't understand why it happened, which was the case. But don't be heartbroken. Be motivated to improve and strive for perfection in the future.

I'm not trying to attack you personally. I'm trying to give another perspective on where people are coming from. You guys have every right to be immensely proud of this coaster.

Thank you for your reply, Tom. I do appreciate it. First of all, I was already planning on doing an overhaul of the ride. After 4 months of operation, I know what can be improved upon. Heartbroken isn't the right word, it is definitely exaggerated. In regards to my response to - let's call it - critical notes: TheZachMan just appeared uninformed, which cannot be blamed. Britfag clearly was making a joke, which was duly noted. Helmut made a summation of things that could be improved upon. Well, not really, he listed a couple of things that are not perfect. I could say that Helmut could have said this in a less harsh way, but this is the way Helmut speaks and you can like it or not. However, the problem lies with Helmut and Max (and other DD members) already having discussed these issues before this post was made. So Helmut was made aware of what the reasons or causes were for/of these issues. The fact that he then posts a list of issues, in the way he does, it feels like he just didn't listen to Max during that discussion prior, or that he doesn't have the dignity to at least show he understands the situation. One could say I'm not playing the ball, but the player. That might be so, but (and if I'm told to learn something, I'm also telling him to learn something) Helmut needs to learn when not to talk.